Authority
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Authority

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Old 10-11-12, 10:49 AM   #1
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"Authority can't survive questioning."

-Robert Anton Wilson
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Old 10-11-12, 11:19 AM   #2
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"Authority can't survive questioning."

-Robert Anton Wilson

I disagree.
I think Authority is just that, the ability to lead.
To think for others when necessary.
To care.

Nothing wrong with questioning, but survive it?
I am glad we have Authority, without it we would only have Anarchy, ok for a while, then very,very cruel.
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Old 10-11-12, 12:06 PM   #3
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To me, Authority does not equal Leadership. Those are entirely different concepts. Authority appears dogmatic, whereas leadership appears more democratic.

Listen to the words you used, "To think for others when necessary."
Ew!

Who is anyone else to do their "knowing" for another human being?

To do the knowing for someone else is insulting in the least. Authority on the level of thinking for others is peddling indirect experience, which leads to fear and ignorance.

Know who else does their thinking for others because they always see it necessary? The Catholic church, Der Fuhrer Hitler, political ideologues(Rush Limbaugh), other forms of media, etc.

Now before you suggest I'm an anarchist or a commie, I'll say that I choose not to subscribe to any of that bullshit either.

;)
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Old 10-12-12, 01:29 AM   #4
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Listen to the words you used, "To think for others when necessary."
Ew!

Who is anyone else to do their "knowing" for another human being?
You are taking me out of context here, but I can see how easily you have, I didn't exactly make myself clear


Parents do it.
Bosses at work do it.
Politicians do it.
Others too, but it's too early in the morning for my brain to work properly

I am not sure leadership is particularly democratic though, I can think of a few leaders, when no democracy has occurred!

There has to be rules, there has to be someone who comes up with them and there has to be someone who enforces them.

It's how we live Operator
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Old 10-12-12, 01:43 AM   #5
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I must say I believe that authority and questioning are 2 unrelated things. It is good to question many things about life, including if the ways people are trying to be authoritative are correct. That does not lessen or negate that there is authority. Authority will always exist in institution, person or persons who are recognized by power of might, power of politics, public acceptance, or other means. Authority exists within all animal groups, even if you don't appreciate it all the time or it changes hands.
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Old 10-12-12, 11:00 AM   #6
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Leaders explain why and how.
Rulers don't want you to know how or why.
I'm going to have to side with Operator here.

And if I ever get ill or injured to the point where I can't speak for myself, I hope someone who understands the situation KILLS ME! I take pride in my ability to speak for myself, and it also gets me what I actually need.
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Old 10-12-12, 11:08 AM   #7
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Leaders explain why and how.
Rulers don't want you to know how or why.
I'm going to have to side with Operator here.

And if I ever get ill or injured to the point where I can't speak for myself, I hope someone who understands the situation KILLS ME! I take pride in my ability to speak for myself, and it also gets me what I actually need.
Are leaders, people in authority?
Because I think they are.
And I think you HAVE to agree

By the way, nice one Operator, it IS being questioned, isn't it?
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Old 10-12-12, 11:17 AM   #8
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True, he just said it without saying "there are different definitions of authority".

My point is that leaders (in everything-- different leaders for different things, with the appropriate talents for what they are) are necessary, while rulers are dangerous! Operator should have said "Rulers cannot survive questioning."
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Old 10-12-12, 12:19 PM   #9
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True, he just said it without saying "there are different definitions of authority".

My point is that leaders (in everything-- different leaders for different things, with the appropriate talents for what they are) are necessary, while rulers are dangerous! Operator should have said "Rulers cannot survive questioning."

No, I don't think so.

He said "Authority can't survive questioning"

That can be read two ways in my humble opinion.

Firstly, that Authority will always perish in some way when people question it and act accordingly.

Or

Authority will ALWAYS be questioned.

I kinda agree with both ways.

But I also feel that authority is vital, but authority means just that, I don't wish to stick other tags like, ruler,dictator etc on it.

Parents have authority over their children (mostly )
And yes, I get questioned a lot

The police have authority over the general public, I think that's a good thing.

But do politicians? We have to remember, we put them there. They soon forget that and often abuse their authority, we just forget how easy it is to take it back
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Old 10-12-12, 01:45 PM   #10
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I've been under authority many times by people who have terrible grasping of what useful leadership actually entails.

A famous example: the Greek authorities who relied on frightened and dependent thinkers felt threatened because Socrates encouraged people to think for themselves. Therefore Socrates was jailed and condemned to hemlock consumption.

Also, I never said the quote, Robert Anton Wilson did! And I think the quote is fine the way it is ;)

The way I interpret that quote is simply that, yes, authority will always be questioned, and if asked the right questions the legitimacy of the authority will perish. That doesn't mean the authority itself perishes, because that takes more force than an individual can exert, but the legitimacy cannot survive.

Once the legitimacy of the authority is taken away, any action taken by the authority figure is subject to ridicule. The authority figure is reduced to a barking monkey waving a paper around :)
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